#229 – Unlocking Tax Benefits: Strategies for Families with The Tax Goddess Shauna A. Wekherlien, CPA

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I

am, too. And you know what I mentioned this to you before we started the recording that this is the first time we're having a conversation about taxes. So and that happens to be your favorite topic?

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Yes, just slightly, you know, the benefits of being known as a tax goddess. Yes, that goes along with it. Let's

love that. Since you said that. What? So how did you come up with the name? Oh,

Shauna A. Wekherlien: well, if you want the true story, it was honestly completely by accident. People have told me that they don't believe that I'm a CPA, because I'm way too chatty. I love talking to people, I've got a personality, you know, a little bit different than your standard CPA, I was at a networking event, she is now 17 something years ago, and I was chatting away with the person next to me, and it was one of those events where you know, they pass around the microphone and you stand up and give you a 32nd commercial or whatever. So here I am happily chatting away, and I get a tap on the shoulder microphone shoved in my face. And I Hi, I'm Charlotte, the tax goddess and it just kind of rolled out. And there were about 200 heads in that room. And every single one of them was fun. And a very good friend of mine was sitting way in the back marketing genius. He said everything you change that name to everything. And it certainly goes along with the red hair. So you know, hard to argue.

It's amazing. Yes, totally, totally love this story. And it's now I can see you in the video. It's a total match. Personality? Well, um, is as much as I feel like this topic of tax discussion is, and I'm coming from an experience working with clients on the financial planning side. And finally, taxes are a big part of what we cover and you know, in the financial plan, but it feels like for most people, it's the topic that they kind of like want to surface right around this time right at the beginning of the year, get the taxes done and move on. i There's a more involved and I'm sure you have a variety of clients like that. So. So today, I think we should kind of go through and talk anything and everything taxes, and particularly finding different ideas and strategies that that going to help us minimize that tax burden, which is essentially what we all want. So love it. But But before we kind of dive into the technical side, maybe you can tell us a little bit of we know how you got your name, but maybe teeny bit about your practice and what do you do for clients?

Yeah, that makes that makes sense. And, you know, one of the questions that I usually get from clients, and I was thinking that's a good one to open this with, is like, what kind of teams should someone build for themselves of professionals? Right? tax professionals, financial professionals, because, like you were explaining, I know, you can see on the screen, but with your hands, like there's a pyramid, right, have different levels of service somebody might need. So what are your thoughts on that? Because does does everybody really need a strategic? You know, whatever, the sorry? The title?

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Goddess? Do they need a goddess goddess? Well, yeah, no, it's an excellent question. So a lot of this has to do with who you are. We call it your chess pieces. Okay. So if you're single and you have a W two and you don't own a house, and you don't have any kids, do you need a strategist? Probably not right? You're probably good with TurboTax h&r block, you know, whatever you feel comfortable with, right? Regular traditional, doesn't even have to be a CPA, just a tax preparer. Okay? Probably good. However, you have kids, you're married, you own a house, maybe you have a side gig, right. So you've maybe you have a W two, but the spouse is working, they're driving for Lyft or Uber, right? There's some sort of side gig, or all the way up to you know, we deal with clients that are over 200 million in revenue. So depending on and we can go all the way down from there, but depending on where you are, is where you're going to build this team. Now, your basic team, I do highly recommend that you have somebody who's looking at your taxes, right? So you've got to have that CPA, the CPA relationship tends to be the most trusted relationship every time Wall Street Journal, or Harvard Business Review does a survey, right, who is the most trusted relationship, it always comes back to the CPA, the CPA tends to be kind of the the hub. Now, the one thing I will warn people about right here, right, because that one spoke on the wheel determines weight a lot else about the other people that are on your team. And one of the most important questions that we tell people to ask themselves and then ask the CPA, whoever it is you're working with? What is your aggression scale? Now, the aggression scale goes from zero to 10. Zero, meaning the IRS never calls you never ever 10 Meaning we're all going to jail. You got to know where you are on the scale. All right. Now, when we ask clients this, let's do some examples. W two owns a house a couple of kids, right note no side gig, no business. Most of those people sit at a two to a four. Okay? They want some strategy, but they would never want a call from the IRS. Like they don't want to get anywhere near a 10. Like, you know, there's no reason to get that aggressive. Most entrepreneurs, right? If you've got a side gig or a business or whatever, you might be a seven to eight, that's the most common. You're okay, getting a call from the IRS. As long as you do everything legal, and you've got all the paperwork and everything to back it up. You're good. And when we asked this question, what do you think your CPA is? The most common answer we get is negative three. Okay, right, which means, and this is why it's important. This is why the CPA you got to pick the right CPA, right? If the CPA that you're dealing with is a negative three, and you're a seven, or even a five, okay? You will never see that CPA will never bring to your attention strategies that can help you and your family get ahead. Whether it's in taxes, whether it's financial investments, whether it's a where to put your money to be safe and secure. Okay, that CPA will never ever bring you that information. They just won't because they're negative three. So one of the most important people to start with is to find that right relationship at the right Eight aggression level for you and for your family, right? Because once you have that CPA, then you start adding well, okay, do we need a corporate attorney? Do we need a financial adviser? Do we need an insurance planner, which can be different than your financial advisor? Some people do it together, some people don't. Right? So as your tax strategist comes along, once you're paying the government about $150,000 a year in tax, that's when you call a tax strategist, because that's the point where most people go, you know, like paying this much money. That's like buying a house every year. I don't want to pay $150,000 a year to taxes. That's where you tend to add a tax strategist, someone who specializes in legal reduction. So

In that 100, that 100, you said, 100,200 50,000. That's combined state and federal tax

I mean, I'm almost like dropping here on my knees. Especially clients in California, right? We're, I mean, we're geographically spread out. But yeah, you know, even just to California, state Tahoe, California,

Shauna A. Wekherlien: New York, New Jersey, all of your high state tax rates, we get calls from those people all day, because they're either fleeing California going, This is ridiculous. I'm out. Right? Or they want to say because they love the beach, the family environment is great, you know, these kinds of things. Right. But they're not willing to pay that kind of tax. It's yeah. So what do you do to legally reduce? That's the fun bit that's that is my job.

Your job, totally, no, I love I love how you can kind of introduce someone into the relationship, because the most common complaint I hear from clients is that, like, yeah, my my CPA or, you know, my tax person, or tax professional files, my taxes, but they're really never talked to me about the strategy, right? And so if they, if they never talked to someone to a client about a strategy, how are they going to ever figure out? Is there a way for them to reduce that tax burden, and that's what everybody most wants.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: That's what people want? Well, and that's why I bring it up, as these are two different parties, your strategist and your CPA are supposed to work together on your account, not at odds with each other. Okay. And so, you know, one of the things we tell our clients when they when they first come to us, there always seems to be it's almost like a breakup conversation, like how do I tell my CPA that like, I want to work with you, but I love them, and I've been with them for 20 years, and I want to stay with them. I'm like, Alright, listen, here's here's the deal, here would be the suggestion, go to them and say, Listen, I'm considering talking to a strategist. How would you feel if I bring in the mistress? I was like, the misters half the time here we are, it was a bad guy, you know, I feel the business. How would you feel if I brought in a strategist who is willing to educate you, the CPA, give you all the back and give you all the details? Right? Because that's, that's our job is to make sure your CPA knows how to file the forms to get done, what you need to get done. Right. CPAs are so busy, and facedown. I mean, we're heading into tax season. Do they even return a telephone call for a month? No, they're working on deadlines. Right? So our job is strategist is to come in and help you and help your CPA and really give that CPA guidance. Listen here, the 15 steps. And if you do these 15 steps, you're going to drop that bill by 80 grand. Let's go. Right. So

did you did let's kind of stick on this the strategist topic, when at what point in the year it makes sense to engage someone? Or is this sort of an ongoing relationship you suggest for clients to have?

that's, that's very helpful. Because I want our listeners to realize that even though the deadline to file taxes is 15th of April, right, or sometimes changes that's like really too late at that point. Well,

Shauna A. Wekherlien: yeah, and if we're talking about because when you talk about filing for the deadline for April 15, that's what did you do for last year, right? That's not even this year. I mean, there's a couple of things like of course, you could put money into an IRA. That'll work. In some states, like, for example, I live in Arizona, in some states, you can put into state and local tax credits and local charities, and they'll give you your taxes against the previous year. But basically, once the year is over, you're kind of cooked. So

Do it Oh, man.

I can hear that like this, this voice and a lot of listeners has like, well, we've got a lot going on right now. You know, small kids, juggling all that stuff. So yes, but but I love the fact that you can gradually get into it. It doesn't have to be like quit my nine to five job and start a business.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Oh no, I think wives would kill husbands and vice versa. But yeah, but let me let me come at this from another angle because we hear this a ton, right? Well, Shauna, that's good. That's great. And that's great. There's all these tax shelters, but I don't have time I'm working. I got kids I'm driving. I would suggest that you look for your business that matches with one of your hobbies. Now, big air quotes around this, okay? Because the IRS does not like the word hobby. Okay. This is not a good thing. You never want that word near your paperwork in any your documentation even in your discussions with your spouse about, hey, I'm going to start this thing, okay? In order to have a business, you must treat it like a business. Okay? So you've got to try to advertise, you have to try to make money, you have to talk about it with business, you know, people in the world, right? Like you're trying to get clients, you're trying to make money. Okay? Let me use a perfect example. Everybody wants to know how to write off the Rolex. Okay, now, doesn't matter if your W two, or if you're a business owner, everybody wants to know all my guys, right? Because the women have their hair and the jewelry and everything else guys want to know how to write off the roads. This is probably one of my favorite side businesses. That is a hobby for many men, okay? But they can turn into a business. Now, if you're a Rolex fan, or any fancy watch or whatever, right? Poor poor men, their their accessories include watches and cars, and sometimes shoes, like that's it, maybe the sunglasses maybe, right? It's they don't have a lot of accessories. If you're really into watches, okay, and so for men, this is a hobby, you could start a business buying and selling watches. Okay? Now, this would give you the ability to wear the watch out and about because of course that's advertising. Hey, Anna, I do want my watch. This is a great watch, you shouldn't have this watch. Buy it from me by the watch. Okay, so this gives you an opportunity to change something that is a hobby for you into a business, right? You've got to sell the watch. You can't you can't just show the watch, you do actually have to sell the watch. Okay. But now you get to do something that you love, right? And you have a business. So you were kind of doing it anyway. Now you have a business. So I do really like merging if you can something you enjoy doing with creating a business around that. For some people that's teaching guitar lessons. For some people. That is we had one of our clients just open up a training class, post jujitsu, a training class on how to do better roles. Okay, right. I mean, whatever, it can literally be anything. You just have to treat it like a business to have the business. So yes,

we get to get to get to that first step. Okay. I like that. I think it's it's going to alleviate some of the stress of not having time.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Yeah, yeah. Well, there's only so many hours in the day, right. And certainly there are people that will come back and say, You know what, to save $5,000 on taxes, it's not worth it for me. So you do want to run these calculations past your tax judges past your tax CPA, right? If I do this, and this is kind of what maybe I think this is going to look like, how much money am I really going to save? Is it worth the what we call the PETA factor pain in the rear end? You know, is is that worth the PETA factor for you? Because for $1,000? Maybe not for 50,000? Maybe? depends on the person, right?

Yes. Okay, so So side gig or up businesses is one idea. What else?

yes. Okay. I like to find levels, cute girls, and I'd like you can argue with the parent forever.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Grandparents are coming in, of course, there are five levels of beauty. Yeah, you kind of have to have some external proof on that one. So yeah,

you're okay. We're like that. Yes. Those are definitely smart ways of not only, you know, teaching your future generation of how intrapreneurship works, right. Like some of the smart steps. Okay, I like it.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Well, and so once the child has that money, right, of course, they could use it to go pay for things, they could also put it into a Roth IRA, into a traditional IRA. Right? That money can be used for anything other than food, clothing, and shelter. So you just can't have parents charging their eight year old rent to live in the house? Yes, the IRS did not approve that one.

Yes, I particularly like the ideas of, you know, invest saving and investing the money, you know, on behalf of the kids. Absolutely.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: You might as well set them up, right. I mean, could you imagine if every single year, you were buying Apple stock or Google stock, right, as these prices are skyrocketing? I mean, by the time that kid turns 18, they might already be a billionaire. Who knows? So,

yes. Now there's there's a lot of that trend right now going on on the social media platforms. At least maybe on my feeds.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Alright, those algorithms, you know,

yes, yes. But I mean, but I mean, there's truth to that, there's definitely Well, the first step is to connect with the right tax professional, but idea ideas of floating. Yes.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Well, and you bring up a very interesting point, which we like to call it The Tick Tock syndrome, okay. When you go on, and you start to look for some of these ideas, alright, you're going to find people that are going to say, in 30 seconds or less, they're going to explain a very complex tax subject. They are not explaining all the pieces. And that's why we call it the tic toc syndrome, okay, because we will get telephone calls from our parents saying, Hey, I saw you can do this on the video. I'm like, Yeah, but he didn't tell you about the other 23 steps or the paperwork you have to fill out or how that you need to go to a modeling agency to get the kid approved. Like they're not telling you all of these details and all of these background facts. And we've seen unfortunately, we've seen quite a few cases where people followed Tiktok advice right air quotes. Please don't do that. Please work with qualified professionals who are willing to sign their name on the bottom of your tax return right or on the advice given to you written these kinds of things to help you make proper decisions because The tic tac people are great and they give great ideas, but you better know what you're looking at. So, yes, I

agree. That's for entertainment and information only.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Exactly, yes. 100% Yeah. Um,

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Well, normally when we have a family, we have a dog. Okay? Not all the time. So people go with cats and Cat people, you're going to be very upset when I explain why I'm bringing up about dogs versus cats here. Okay. So you've got your business, your kid is the one posting pictures, right? We got those eBay, beautiful eBay, well lit watches, they're all they're all up on eBay, okay, you now have potentially clients coming to your home to purchase your watch or purchase the car or whatever it is that you're selling, okay. You may be inviting vendors over to your home to be able to take better photos or do a group shot of your family to put on the cover flyer for your business, whatever it is, okay? When you have other people coming to your place of business, you may need security for that business. Okay? You don't know these people, you don't know the random guy is coming to buy the Rolex from your home. Okay. So security can be important. Now, one of the benefits and this is where dogs versus cats. Okay, so there are court cases that talk specifically about dogs, if you have a dog whose shoulder is taller than the height of the shortest person in the household neat. Okay, well, if your seven year old is working for your business, their knee is pretty short. Right? So okay, so we got to step one shoulder knee, okay, step two, the dog has to be trained, which is a very broad term. So sit stay calm is kind of your basic understanding of trained, okay. And the third one is the dog has to have a business purpose to be written off through the business. So is the dog providing security to your family when somebody comes to your home to buy the Rolex, right? Or when you have a vendor coming or whatever that is. So if you meet those three qualifications, your dog can now be written off as a business expense, which means food, clothing, trimming, grooming, that shots, treats all the things, okay. Which generally for families, a dog is adorable, but they're also like the fifth expense in the family of four sniffle. So, you know, we can add up we have people that spend between five and $10,000 a year on a dog, right. And that can be a pretty hefty tax deduction for someone. So

I love that. I love that. One area that I think maybe we should touch on, you mentioned briefly about it. Are the college savings like are there any ideas or suggestions particularly around like the 529? College? So I'm

Shauna A. Wekherlien: always a little bit torn on the 529. Okay, I love the 529. It's a great program, I understand what the government was trying to do. But there's pros and cons with the 529. Right? So some of the pros of the 529. Right, the money can go in there and acts like a Roth and the earnings not taxable. I mean, we've got some really cool things on that front. But one of the major cons is that once the money is in the 529, it's in the 529, right? If your child does not go to an approved college or university that can take 529 money, that money can be trapped. Now, you can give it to another child, you can move it, it can become retirement funds, way, way, way, way, way out the future, there's a new program that allows you to pull out certain amounts out of the 529. But for most of our parents, we honestly the tax benefits of putting into a 529 are sitting at the state level. So in some states, I'll pick on Arizona, because that's where I'm from, in some states, the maximum you can put in and get a deduction for is like $1,000 per child, that's only giving you like a $50 tax benefit. And if my money is going to be locked up, do I like is that worth it is $50 worth my money being walked up? Versus and of course, every professional has their opinion on this. I don't sell life insurance, I talk about life insurance as a tool. One of the things that we see a lot of parents kind of moving to from the 529 angle is going into what are typically called Infinite Banking programs. It allows you to put money in it's based on the life of the child, all of that money is also tax free, exactly like the Roth, right. And they can pull it out for any reason. So you want to start a business, you can borrow from it, want to buy a car, you can borrow from it, you want to go to college, you can borrow from it to go to college, right? So a lot of our parents tend to go that route, but 520 Nights can be good. A lot of it I tell people please look at the state benefits, because the federal does not give you any benefits all the 529 so I'm always a little torn as to whether I think that's great or no, you know, like which path to go there.

Yeah, I think a lot of a lot of families also think about okay, well, you know, maybe we're not getting an introduction, right, right this minute, right, generally, or, you know, in the state we live in California does not offer one either. But in the future, and also, you know, the cost of college is increasing tremendously. So they're, they're incentivized by the fact that it's growing tax free. So that's, that's, I think, the biggest advantage of the 529. But but do talk a little bit about the alternative suggestion, because I think that would be interesting for for listeners to know about

Shauna A. Wekherlien: 100%. Well, and so and I always call it infinite banking, but you know, there's probably 80 different structures that can do, I'm going to explain the theoretical, okay, but at different structures that can do what I'm about to describe. Okay, so you talk about the tax free growth, I'm all in, okay, because when you start a child at day one, they were born and you put in $5. Now that $5 turns into 50,000. Like, who would not take that? Why would you not do that? The alternative that we call infinite banking, really what this is, it's a type of life insurance, okay? Can be based on the whole life Indexed Universal Life, there's a bunch of bunch of different options here. But really, what's happening is the same thing. So I'm putting in $5, all of the earning is inside that life insurance policy, okay, life insurance money is 100%, tax free for life period. And when you die, it's also tax free to whoever you get the money to. Okay, so we're talking tax free, tax free, tax free 100%, across the board, tax free. Now, one of the things that I really like about using the life insurance angle on this is because, again, super flexible, so your kid wants to go to a trade school, not a university, your fine kid wants to become an entrepreneur, they have cash this, they call it infinite banking, because you're really banking on yourself, right? You've been putting this money away, all of the earnings are tax free. When you want those funds, you don't have to go to the SBA or a bank. And hopefully, maybe fingers crossed, make it through their banking application program, for your 18 year olds go open a business, they have their own money to open this business. Now, one of the great things about this is that money when they pull that money out, it is not taxable. To them, it is a loan. So earlier, you mentioned you're really teaching your kids about fiscal responsibility, right? Giving them like, this is how the world works. Okay, this is a safe way for your children to do that, versus trying to open up their first business and college on credit cards, and then getting stuck with 30% interest rates and $30,000 in debt because their first business failed, okay? This is a very safe way. Because if they don't repay the loan, as long as there's still money premium still going in there, okay? If they don't repay the loan, when they die, they will, it's a part of the life insurance policy. So these things do need to be structured really carefully. You must must must work with a professional to do this. Okay. And heads up warning for the audience out there. There are good people, and there are bad people. So make sure that you're reaching out, for example, to our lovely host Anna right, to find out who are the good people that she knows, reach out to your tax strategist? Who are the good people that have been vetted, right? To know, where do you go? Who do you need to talk to? So yes,

I love that. I know, it's, it's definitely a typical advice that you will get will get put all your money in the 529 versus consider, consider a life insurance

Shauna A. Wekherlien: policy. Oh, and, you know, I think you bring up a really valid point here, which is there is no one pill, there's no one strategy that is going to solve every prop, there just is. Okay. So having a balance, having a little bit of money in a 529 having some in life insurance, having some in real estate, having some in gold, like whatever, these are the types of things that you would talk about with one of the stools of the of your circle of your we'll have professionals here with your financial advisor, right? This this is their job is to look and make sure that you are balanced and well sorted and you have somebody that's taxable and somebody that isn't and somebody that's quick, accessible, and somebody that is long term accessible, right? This is in my opinion, and probably better to speak to this than I am. But this in my opinion is kind of a big picture job of your financial advisor to look at your life as a whole and say what do you need to do here to get into a good spot a good position? So

exactly, yes, we got carried away on the tax piece.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: The downsides to a goddess you know, ya

know, no, that's all. So my next question for you is, are there any you know, type because clients asked this a lot. Are there any tax credits or like deductions, or anything else that do you typically see people sort of forget to take advantage off? Especially when they have kids?

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Oh, geez, I mean, all the time, right? Where do I even start that? Um, you know, certainly when we start looking at like your child tax credit, childcare credits. I mean, those are kind of the big ones that we see because people just either they don't know what even exists. The CPA doesn't ask them. This is the one that's kind of heartbreaking to me is that sometimes not all the time, but a CPA is just moving so fast that if you don't submit the records, they don't even ask you about it. Right. You know, but childcare is something especially for families with kids, childcare tends to happen. Right? So that's what I've been looking at first credits with kids. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I think I tend to deal more on the business end. So my brain is just constantly going to how do we write off the kids in the first place? Right, forget the credits credits are great. And it is something you should be paying attention to. But yeah, I would certainly be looking at that business. And if it was me,

so yeah. And also to that end, like I think just work as you were talking about Child Child Child Care. And I just recently got a statement from from our preschool. Right, here's all you you've paid a year. Yes, um, I was thinking about a dependent care, you know, FSA type of account, this is for those who have that luxury, like their employer may provide that option for them. So it's not often that I see that, but it's that clients don't take advantage of it. But I think that's a great tool to have some pre tax dollars, right?

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Well, and you know, you bring up a very valid point, which is really making sure that you are maximizing, if you're a W two, maximize all the things maximize absolutely everything that your company is offering to you. Right, if you're going to use it. I mean, obviously the downside to FSA is if it goes in you don't use it. You're, you're in trouble. But yeah, if you have HSA options, use them if you have FSA to offset use them. Now we have one of the new big things coming out for employers to to really, one Sep simples now have Roth options, which is new. So if your employer has that, and you you're in a low enough tax bracket, take a look at that. Yeah. The other one is something called Lisa, which is brand new. It's a pension linked emergency savings account. Okay. And not a lot of employers have set this up yet. But it's a pretty cool feature function. For a lot of people, they are worried about putting money into retirement, because what if there's an emergency, right? What if my AC breaks, or my car breaks, I'm going to need that money. So I'm going to keep it over here in the savings account. The cool thing about the police is that you can fund that account, and the first $2,500, you can pull out for any emergency. And there's no penalty, there's no tax, the whole thing rolls over to a Roth account. So there are some really cool things you can do there. Talk about emergencies, you know, kid just broke his leg, you got to go to the hospital, you know, whatever it is, right. So

yeah. Well, it's also like, I think you said, you said it in a nice way that you still have time, right? Because we're looking at this in a calendar year, right. So for anyone listening, like we have, like this is when somebody's reaching out to you in December 31. There's no time for

Shauna A. Wekherlien: there's no time. Well, and so if we talk about some of the bigger games, right, so that that over 150, in order to get some of those structures set up, it takes a month or two. Yeah. So you can't I mean, once the transaction is done, the transaction is done. Even if it's done in April, right. It's it's done. And now you have to use other strategies to try to minimize it. So still have time but you always want to plan ahead is the general good advice. You always want to plan ahead if you can. So, yes,

harder to do some some of the longer term planning, right, because we were just sprinkling your limited

That's true. Well, we're just about at the end of our recording today, and I wanted to see if you have any last minute thoughts for our listeners, how do we do save taxes this year? Finally. I

Shauna A. Wekherlien: love it. Well, step one, get a business if you don't have one, make one right figure out a way to have a business. If you don't have a business, which I know we didn't get a chance to cover, but if we don't have a business, be looking to invest money, because really as a W two, that the best way you're gonna get a write off without having a business is to put your money into some of the specialized types of investments. So oil and gas solar, you know, there are credits for quite a few Different kinds of investments. So be looking there. And I think the other one is make sure that not all of your money is taxable, right? Make sure you have some life insurance and Roth, you know, some of these things to be able to spread out the tax burden as you move forward in life. So

I love that I highly recommend that particular piece to clients as well, because I see them on the other side, when they do get to retirement, and it's like, oh, my money's my in my 401 K. I'm like, great.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: All taxable.

Yeah, you've done an awesome job and saving. That's fantastic. But we need to, we need to start to diversify the income gap a little more as well. Let's thank you so much, Anna, for connecting with us here today. How if someone wants to get into your world and learn about what you do, how can they do that?

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Absolutely. We are really easy to find taxgoddess.com, you can book a call with our team. They'll run through you know, we serve as three really different levels of individuals. So small babies that are just starting, maybe you're just starting your first business, medium size up to about 100 million, and then 100 million plus so tax scotus.com And it'll walk you through where to go and where to collect and where to book a call. So that sounds

great. And we'll include all of this in the show notes as well. So thank you so much again for your time today.

Shauna A. Wekherlien: Thank you for having me.